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Carnegie Chip
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... The Rays haven't drafted pitching *that* well. Their top two starters, Garza and Kazmir, were both guys they traded for. If you look at the mid-rotation guys that came through their system (Sonnastine, Shields), I wouldn't really put them that far above Duke, Maholm, Snell, etc. What interests me is the idea of high school vs college. I vaguely remember Moneyball saying something about never drafting high school pitching. But these college guys have so much arm trouble because they get abused. I'd rather draft a bat and then pick up a bunch of HS prospects in later rounds. |
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JerryG
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... So if Strasburg, Ackley and White are all gone when the Pirates turn comes, should they take Crow? (maybe he should wear a shirt that says "You know you want me, baby!") |
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Alex
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... Being from the Tidewater/ Hampton Roads where the Tides were until last year the Mets AAA affiliate I remember "Generation K" Isringhausen actually kept suffering freak injuries. He once tried to climb to his girlfriends, fell and messed up his arm |
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whygavs
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... Price, Davis, Hellickson, and Niemann were all drafted by the Rays. That's really, really good. |
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bucdaddy
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... I had Wilson, Izzy and Pulsipher on my Rotisserie team the year after they made their dazzling debuts, all cheap, all for a couple years. I thought I had the league aced. When they all bombed (and I thought I had the bullpen cornered the year before, and all three of my closers bombed), is when I quit Rotisserie, cause I realized I didn't know nothing. |
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Carnegie Chip
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... Um, those guys are all in the minor leagues. We don't know how they're going to turn out yet. Isn't it a bit silly to declare a guy a success until he does something at the ML level? No offense but you buy into minor league numbers and media hype way too much. Niemann is up but only has been so-so as a #5 starter. Subtract Kazmir and Garza and their major league output hasn't been much better than ours. |
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Nate
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re:Um, those guys are all in the minor leagues. We don't know how they're going to turn out yet. Isn't it a bit silly to declare a guy a success until he does something at the ML level? Price pitched in the playoffs last year and did really well. Niemann is slated to move to the 'pen, where I think he'll be lights out. The others, yeah, the jury's still out, but those two are good players. |
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Nate
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As for those of you talking about trades... The Rays traded for Scott Kazmir, sure. But he was still drafted in the first round by the Mets. Garza was also selected in the first round by the Twins. Also, anyone that thinks Garza is better than Shields is on crack. But I digress. This means that three out of the five pitchers in the Rays rotation were drafted and developed by the team, while two additional ones were drafted in the first round by other teams. One was drafted in the first round by the Rays, and he's slated to be replaced later this season by a pitcher that the Rays drafted first OVERALL. I don't like the idea of drafting pitching early, but the point Pat makes still stands, which is that the Rays are a great case study to prove that it can work. |
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Max
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Clem This is my first post, so be easy on me. But as they say on Stan and Guy, long time listener first time caller. I love the site, because I, like Pat, am an eighties baby who has trouble remembering a winning Pirates team. But the draft is one of my favorite subjects so I figure now is as good a time as ever to chime in. I completely agree in that it's not the end of the world if the Pirates draft a pitcher at 4 overall, but the majority of Pirates fans make think it is due to the DL era. Coaching and a responsible workload are very important once an organization drafts any player, but what's most important is drafting talent. None of the pitchers selected in the first round in the past decade could be described as a potential staff ace. I think Peter Gammons said it best in that the Pirates have been drafting tenth round talent in the first round. So I have no problem with the Buccos drafting a pitcher at four so long as the talent is worthy. Of course I would love for Ackley to fall to us but I think the Ms grab him at 2, though if that doesn't happen, the Pads could pass on him and I have little doubt NH wouldn't pull the trigger on him. But if that doesn't happen... I don't see them drafting White as he has slid on many draft boards due to a lackluster recent showing. In a recent post on ESPNs draft blog they have the Pirates high on RHPs Shelby Miller and Jacob Turner while also preferring Crowe to Scheppers (sorry for the lack of a link, though it's insider locked). Turner supposedly has the best HS arm in the draft with a fastball that clocks as high as 98, while Miller is one of those Texas stud flamethrowers, 6'4 220, 95 mph fastball with a gnarly curve. The only problem I believe is that they are both borass advisees, though NH/FC have both said that won't be a problem. This draft sort of reminds me of the 06 draft where we were hoping for Longoria to drop to us, it didn't happen so we picked Lincoln, a classic DL quick to the majors but lower ceiling pick (although Lincoln looks decent and seems like he could be a good 3/4 starter). At the time I wasn't all that upset with the pick, but had hoped the Pirates would sac up and pick either Kershaw or Drabek (both HS pitchers out of Texas who had ace potential) Now it looks like I was right as Kershaw looks like a future ace at 21 (though with the way the Dodgers handled him last year and how up and down he's been this year, it's not a gaurentee) and Drabek has been dominant so far this seasom after having TJS last year. I just don't want this years draft to turn into the same deal, go with the safe college pick rather than the risky high school flame thrower. I know this years class is nothing special, and there really is no talent deserved of the fourth pick outside of Stras and Ack, but I have to disagree with Pats pick of White, way too inconsistent this year. Please Pirates, grow a pair this year. Sorry for the length of the post but I just had a lot to say. |
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PittWin
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Draft I agree with Max above that part of the problem with the Pirates drafting pitchers in the first round is they drafted for signability instead of talent. You don't draft a number 3 starter in the top of the first round. I still would rather see a position player drafted but only if he was worth drafting at number 4. I think Crow or White would be a good pick with the number four selection. I have a gut feeling that Scheppers is going to be a bust. I hope they don't draft him at number 4, which I'm sure they will not. The overall key to the draft is drafting players in the later rounds that are top two round talents. Last year they drafted Scheppers as well as a few HS players they got to sign instead of going to school. Throwing money around in the later rounds could become very useful in stockpiling talent in the system. |
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