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Nate
said:
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... I'm assuming by Mark Sanchez, you mean Tanner Scheppers and not some previously unknown to me baseball prospect actually named Mark Sanchez. I don't think they'll pick Scheppers, and I also don't think he's one of the best pitchers in the draft. I'd be pretty psyched about Crow, honestly. |
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MrPedriqueIfYou\'reNasty
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... But Mark Sanchez has some good intangibles and a strong arm. So you can't really assume anything. He definitely wouldn't be a signability pick though. |
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JerryG
said:
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... According to BP's Kevin Goldstein ranks Tony Sanchez as the 20th best prospect available in the draft, he sounds a bit like Adam LaRoche from the description. I certainly would be disappointed if he's the fourth overall pick, if they get him in the supplemental round, I'd be happy with it. Fourth overall though, he'd be more of an overdraft than Moskos. They need more pitching help, whether it's Jacob Turner, Tanner Scheppers or Aaron Crow... As for a finish line, I would hope there is no "finish line". A finish line implies that the Pirates would be a finished product and that they can quit trying to have good teams. The minute that happens, the team will go back to the losing ways. No, I don't want a finish line. i want them to always work to get better... |
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SteelCity G
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... Agreed, there should never be a finish line, they should continuously be working, always trying to field the best team possible. As far as the draft, I don't understand why they are considering not taking the best player available, what is the purpose and how can they get away with it PR wise by standing up and saying they took a player who wasn't the best available but we could sign him cheap and quick after all the years that DL did that and when they took office that was one of the first things they said was they wouldn't be cheap and would always take the best player, I just don't get where they are coming from if they pass on the best player. |
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Carnegie Chip
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... At some point, you're gonna have to get over this Littlefield/Bonifay/McClatchy fixation and evaluate NH on his own merits. Just because he may not be the worst GM in history doesn't make him "good" by default. We want a winner, not "at least he's not as bad as the last guy." If you don't set a "finish line" then there is never any incentive to win. Let's say Alvarez comes up in 2011 and he RAKES. Like Rookie of Year, then 30+ HR and 100RBI seasons the next 2 years. But we finish a couple games under .500 his rookie year and then a few games over his next two years. Do you trade him? Do you throw your hands up and say "Well, we can't afford to resign him so let's trade him for 7 prospects because his value his high?" |
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Carnegie Chip
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... At some point we should be allowed to expect to be competitive, and with NH it is when Lincoln/Tabata/Morris/Alvarez become the "core" of our major league team. (which should be 2011 & 2012 unless he blew it with all those guys in which case he definitely should be fired for incompetence) Giving NH and Coonelly an indefinite blank check to rebuild at a pace they see fit is ridiculous. There has to be accountability and there has to be a goal in sight. The notion that there should be no timetable or no end game in place is the craziest idea I've ever heard. |
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Josh K
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... I agree with you Pat, much of the material coming out of the PG about this trade has been garbage. The team that opened the season was projected by pretty much everyone to lost 90-95 games. I think I predicted 99 because I didn't have the heart to type "100", but the point is this team is really really short on talent. If NH can make a deal to increase the talent level of the organization, he's obligated to do it. As it stands now we are nowhere near having championship level talent. I think many fans over estimate Nate McLouth; he is by no means a superstar. He's a solid player, but he isn't a player that Championship teams build around. Does he compare to Albert Pujols, Alex Rodriguez or Ryan Howard? No, he doesn't. He doesn't even compare to a Carl Crawford or a Johnny Damon. Nate McLouth is a solid major leaguer, but on a team like ours, he is nothing more than a misused lead-off hitter. I think in a few years, this trade will be marked as a watershed in the evolution of a playoff caliber team. Perhaps that's a bit bold, but I think it's much more likely than it being another in a long list of botched deals. |
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whygavs
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... Just because he may not be the worst GM in history doesn't make him "good" by default. I wrote this almost word for word yesterday. But it takes longer than 20 months to rebuild a ravaged baseball franchise and anyone expecting Huntington and Coonelly to have done so at this point is being unreasonable. I'm not suggesting an indefinite blank check or they shouldn't set internal metrics for success, but setting a public "finish line" only creates problems if some sort of change in ANYthing causes you to have to change it. |
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JerryG
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... If Lincoln comes up and sucks, then that would be Mr. Littlefield's fault since he was the guy who drafted him in 2006. Considering that he's absolutely raking in AA right now probably means that when he gets here, he'll probably not suck. |
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bwzimmerman
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... ON A BRIGHTER NOTE... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ce2-oucmc NAMECHECK : Phil Savage! (c/o DK's PBC Blog) |
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Derek B.
said:
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... I'm behind Neal Huntington 100%. I like the philosophy and I'm on board. I remember the early Nineties; it's nice to win Super Bowls and compete yearly for the Stanley Cup, but there's something special about seriously pursuing the World Series. That should be our goal, not being a .500 team, and if this is our best route to eventually get back there, I'm all for it. |
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Carnegie Chip
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... Other than the hysterical bobblehead fans who think the answer to everything is "Nutting should spend $200 million on FA's", I don't see anybody suggesting the franchise should have been rebuilt by now. Also, I don't see where Dejan or I said they should come out and publicly state "By July 14th, 2011 we plan to be in FIRST PLACE, dammit!" What we are saying is there should be some measure in place whereby they shift from rebuilding to contending mode. These vague promises of "we'll resign our guys or add FAs when we're COMPETITIVE" is hollow and meaningless unless they establish what it means. |
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Carnegie Chip
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... Look at the Brewers for example. They've had competitive teams the past few years. But not good enough to make the playoffs. So what do they do? They trade one of their top prospects (LaPorta) to rent CC to finally make the postseason. Or how this year the Rays finally went from bystanders to signing a big money FA (Pat Burrell) My biggest fear, and what Dejan I think was trying to address, is come 2012 we're in the same boat as the Brewers and instead of making a CC trade, NH says "Oh well, we lack enough pitching PROSPECTS to win" and trades Prince Fielder (Pedro) for organizational depth. The cycle has to end sometime. |
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Hitman Easler
said:
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Are you Dejan? If you are, get over your crush on Nate......this was a good trade.........and Hip-Hop Burnett and the rest of the idiots should be summarily sent to Indy. |
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JustinM
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... What did that trade for CC get Milwaukee? A trip to the postseason and nothing else. |
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JustinM
said:
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... There should be no finish line. Finish lines make you spend money on questionable free agents rather than on players to grow around. The A's don't have a finish line; they have a recycling program. When they rebuild, it's aggressive. When they win, they still position themselves aggressively to unload their "star" players in order to restock the minors. And guess what? Their fans understand it. If only ours would do the same. |
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w.k. kortas
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... I have, sitting on my desk, a candle-nay, an eternal flame--for Dave Littlefield. |
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Jimmy the Freak
said:
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... Pat, I really like your writing, but you are kind of taking this out of context. "HOUSTON -- In the aftermath of the Nate McLouth trade, one that will reverberate with the Pirates for years, here are three significant lessons that could be learned by Frank Coonelly and Neal Huntington, the two men running the franchise, from the overwhelmingly negative reaction of the players and public:" This line that opens the article you linked to gives the context for what DK is saying. He isn't blaming them. He is summarizing the reactions to the trade(s). These are the realities that NH and FC need to work with. |
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vanslyke
said:
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... How about NH giving us a finish line after he rebuilds 3 levels of minor league ball with prospects good enough to project even some level of talent at the MLB level. Oh and here is an idea, why not build around a McCuthchen (22) with huge upside rather than a player previously thought organizational and a major overachiever at 27. When the core we are building around hit MLB ready/productive, he will be 30. Real smart to build your winner around someone in their 30's - where is that precendent? Nowhere. |
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ExileInDC
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... Let's all stop the caterwauling over the "finish line" thing. Here's what Dejan said today and it makes bloody good sense: "The Pirates present no finish line, and that makes sense to an extent: Teams always should be trying to get better. But, as per the point that I made in the Sunday piece on this topic, there does have to be a time when a specific group is seen as genuinely contending and gets the full backing of upper management." Enough said. |
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Rod Serling
said:
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... ...and all this time I thought it was all Dave Littlefield's fault! Of course, it's all Cam Bonifay's fault! Remember, throw them all under the bus. Throw everybody not named "BOB NUTTING", under that freaking bus, at ALL COSTS! LOL. |
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