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auburngang
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Ankiel I think this could be good giving us a rotating outfielder/spare with veteran experience. You always need extras in the outfield and at first base. It's a good chance to take. |
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MDBuc
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How about Clement to AAA as full time catcher/DH to see if his knees can hack it and increase his value, Ankiel in right, Jones and Pearce platoon first with some games in right for Jones to give Ankiel or Milledge a day off (Ankiel in left)? |
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MDBuc
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... I realize that for that to work someone will have to explain the concept of platoon to Russell. |
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matt w
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platoon You talking about baseball? Hmm? Y'all experts? Y'all know about baseball? I'd like to hear about it, potheads. Sorry, wrong "Platoon." (Not to mention that I'm a fraud -- never saw it, just looked up its imdb quotes page.) I had thought that maybe it would be a good idea to do a platoon, because Jones's platoon stats were megabig -- Ryan Howard level -- but it seems like everyone involved is lefthanded, unless you count Steve Pearce. It doesn't seem like it should be that difficult to have Dan Fox sit Russell down and explain that he was going to pay attention to lefty-righty matchups, though, if he could convince him to play the center fielder shallow. I did think Pat meant that Jones would be moving to first; it makes a lot more sense. |
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w.k. kortas
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... I'm hesitant to believe that Ankiel and Boras are looking at a) a one-year deal b) a platoon/less-than-full-time arrangement. It sounds crazy to talk about Ankiel blocking anyone--these are the Pirates, after all--but first base and the corner spots are, at least in terms of potential, a strength. I think the Pirates need to see what they have in Milledge, Tabata, and Clement; having Ankiel in tow is a potential barrier to that. If it gets to the point in January or February where Ankiel is still unsigned and would take a one-year deal, OK--but there's someone available of Ankiel's ilk--good past performance combined with an off-season and/or injury issues--available every year. A multi-year deal for Ankiel doesn't fit the Pirates' needs. |
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bwzimmerman
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good defender, good bat, often injured? why don't we just shave Doumit, scrawl Ankiel's name on the back of his jersey with a Sharpie, and save the money and position juggling? |
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Kneel Before Huntington
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... Here's an idea, let's bring in one or two healthy players instead of doing all our free agent shopping in the scratch and dent section. Seriously, Ankiel is a classic Pirate mistake waiting to happen, bidding against ourselves for a broken-down player hoping he might manage to repeat his one fluke season. Give him a boat and he's Derek Bell. |
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MattC18
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... What about signing Rocco Baldelli? I know the Bucs were somewhat interested in him last offseason and Boston didn't offer him arbitration. He'd probably be more amenable to a one-year contract/platoon situation than Ankiel as well |
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Nate
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... You guys are all acting like Tabata and Clement will be in MLB to start the season. Realistically, Tabata is probably a full year of AAA away from the show, and if not at least half a season for arbitration reasons. If he's ready, the Pirates could trade Ankiel. If not, Ankiel > Moss. (Assuming Jones would play first, of course.) As for Clement, he's also at least a half season away because of his defense. Would you rather have Ankiel in right and Jones at first, or Jones and his bad glove in right and Pearce and his platoon bat at first? Also, I've been loving the idea of Pearce in a platoon with either Jones or Clement for some time now, but I think management has just about had it with him. It would be a great idea to try, and maybe they'll surprise me, but I think he's probably disappointed to many times for them to look at him in any role other than a spare part. |
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bucsfanforever
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... Sign Ankiel to a 2- or 3-year deal, then see what he does. Once the potential talent gets to the major league level, then worry about what to do. A player with Ankiel's talent at a such a bargain price doesn't come along for teams like the Pirates every year-let's not let this one get away. |
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epoc
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... Perfect post, Pat. I couldn't agree more. In addition to Clement, Jones, and Milledge, I think you need to give Moss another 450 PAs this year. He's been awful for the last year and a half, but most projections I've seen have him bouncing back to a near-average hitter, and at his age and with his glove that's a valuable player. Also, in addition, I'll say that people are not thinking enough about how bad Ankiel will be. He might bounce back, but both CHONE and Bill James (ZIPS hasn't released the Cards' projections yet) project him to be worse than Moss. Seriously. At their respective ages, you've got to like the upside on Moss, Milledge, Clement, and Jones way more, as well. And I don't think the downside is worse for any of them. So, uh, in conclusion, what Pat said: signing Ankiel is not a good decision. |
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cleebo
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... I'd rather see Ankiel on a 1 or 2 year deal prove last year was a fluke than see Clement show he can't handle first in the big leagues yet, Moss show everyone he's just an average player or Peirce show everyone he was a 1 year wonder in AAA. The risk is we end up with a slightly overpaid Moss with power and the reward is flipping him for some useful prospects. |
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MarkInDallas
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One thing I know Brandon Moss will NOT be the starting right fielder in 2010. In fact, he wouldn't have lasted as long as he did in 2009 if Pearce had caught fire. The more options, the better. What if Clement starts the season at 1B and stinks? After 2 months you can bring up Tabata, but what if he's not ready? What if Garret Jones proves human? What if Milledge gets hurt? All those things could happen, and if any two of them happen, then the 2010 Pirates season is going to be a complete disaster from an offensive standpoint. I just don't see how you can say we don't want someone who would give the Pirates one more option to actually score some runs. If we have too many players producing ... wonderful! Let's get out the champagne! So, you start Ankiel in right and Jones at 1B. Now, if one of them is not performing in April, you start bringing in the replacements until you find someone who is. Huntington want to create a competition for jobs, and I think that's a great idea. Garret Jones came up and played his way onto the team as an everyday player. Andy suddenly woke up once Walker was called up. Neither Pearce nor Moss grabbed the reigns and if Clement wouldn't have gotten hurt he would have had a chance in September. Everyone who deserves a chance will get it, but they will have to grab the ring when they have the chance. |
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nyjim
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Damaged goods Although Ankiel is attractive, he as two things going against him: Injury history and Boras. I'd like to see the Pirates get in the market, but I'd also like them to spend wisely. I don't think signing a guy who's damaged goods is wise. |
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azibuck
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... Clement will be catching in AAA until Doumit gets hurt or traded. Tabata will be in AAA until he gets hurt, misses six weeks, and then comes back and catches fire (August). GFJ, Moss, Pearce? They could ALL tank, nevermind ONE of them maybe stepping forward (or in Jones's case, proving real). So hell yeah, bring in Ankiel if the price is right. He's a dead pull hitter, so the park is right for him. But I think we'd pretty clearly be signing him to trade him if he plays well. Maybe by June 1, maybe not until July 31. Maybe for a prospect, maybe for peanuts. Between our situations at 1B and RF, I just don't see two other things working out so greatly that Ankiel wouldn't fit -- IF HE CAN PLAY. LF too, for that matter. So, Does anyone know why he tanked so badly last year? Injury? Or is there a fatal flaw in his swing that's been exposed? |
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epoc
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aaargh Why would you pay a free agent to create competition? That's a foolish use of resources. There is plenty of competition already at the corners between Clement, Jones, Milledge, and Moss, not to mention Pearce as well as Myrow and Tabata in AAA. If Milledge gets hurt, Jones, Clement, and Moss stink, and Tabata's not ready, then yes, 2010 will be a disaster. Just like the 2009 Mets were a disaster. I'm afraid the Pirates just aren't in a position where they can have a backup plan for "what if everyone on our team is way worse than expected?" Rather than bringing more options into a crowded situation to hedge against the unlikely eventuality that everyone they already have is terrible, they should be giving the young guys they have the opportunities to distinguish themselves. They would significantly undercut that goal by bringing in a free agent outfielder. And please don't just say that we could trade Ankiel if everyone else is doing well. For one, there's no way to know how everyone else is doing if Ankiel's stealing their PAs. For two, if he's doing poorly we won't be able to trade him at all, and if he's doing well there will be tremendous PR pressure to keep him, not just for the fans but for other free agents who might not sign with a team that does not look like it's committed to winning. The most realistic scenario, as evidenced by the projection systems, is that Moss, Milledge, Jones, and Clement will all be decent players. If one tanks, that's fine, because we have four legitimate options for three spots (not to mention Tabata and Myrow in the minors). If two tank, that's fine because it only means one fewer win in a season that was lost to begin with. Here's my horror scenario: Garrett Jones' 2009 was for real, Milledge is ready to break out, Moss bounces back, and Clement can play an adequate first base, but we have a 30-year-old who can't take a walk wasting a roster spot and stealing PAs. Milledge can't break out because he's not getting regular playing time and can't find the groove. Moss is relegated to 4th outfielder status for the rest of his career. Clement has to play another season at AAA, wastes his age 27 season adjusting to the majors and is past his peak when he finally puts it all together. Jones is awesome and gets regular playing time, but in 2011 when it might start to matter, he's 30 and declining. Basically, I think Ankiel stands for everything that was wrong and frustrating about the Pirates for 17 years, and it would just about make me cry to see the Pirates spend Milledge's opportunity cost to see if Ankiel can defy the odds and have a career year at the age of 30. Why even trade Nyjer Morgan in the first place, then? If you want to talk about bringing in an Adam Everett or an Orlando Cabrera or a Bobby Crosby, that's reasonable, because Cedeno is not very good and we have no depth at SS and those players would be as good or better than Cedeno even if they don't magically put it all together and have a career year. But Ankiel is not a good option. |
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azibuck
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... Let me ask your question a different way, epoc. Why would you pay a free agent? To create competition. Since Tabata and Clement can both start in AAA, we really have 3 guys for two spots, Jones, Pearce, and Moss. That situation is the exact reason to bring in another option. If you think Pearce and Moss can still break out as full time starters, we can just disagree. One think not available to us in this discussion is how much Ankiel would actually cost. It's one thing to pay a high price for someone that you're then almost obligated to play because of salary. It's another to spend a reasonable (?) amount of money on a guy that could be better than any of your initial options, and be desirable to another team. I really don't see this being much different than signing Hinske last year. |
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epoc
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... Myrow and Clement both project as above-average hitters, and they are 33 and 26 respectively. There is no reason why they should be in AAA so that a 30-year-old free agent can play in the majors. Suggesting that Ankiel creates competition is completely specious. And as I was at pains to point out, Moss actually projects *better* than Ankiel. If you don't think that Moss can break out, fine, but he has just as much chance of doing so as Ankiel. |
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nyjim
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epoc's right Ankiel would take playing time away from guys who've either earned it or deserve it. Signing him, as epoc wrote, is exactly what's been wrong with the Bucs--signing free agents they can barely afford and watching them crash and burn and taking the team with them. Signing Ankiel is not like signing Hinkse. Because Boras is Ankiel's agent, he will get far more than he's worth. Ankiel might be a part-time luxury on a top team. Pittsburgh can't afford such a luxury. Signing him would be a step backwards. |
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azibuck
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... epoc -- jeez, you're the one that suggested it, so check your own speciousness. >Myrow and Clement.... Myrow cannot be part of any serious discussion of who should get playing time with a major league team. |
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TheGuyFromPgh
said:
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... Good article Pat. Maybe he'll nibble at a short-term contract. But it is def risky, esp when our developing players are more than ever important to us. |
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